Grieving in Color Episode #10:

Episode 10 Loss of Motherhood Possibilities/Infertility with Alisha J.

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Welcome to Grieving in Color, a podcast that explores the various ways we navigate our experiences with grief and loss in a place where we find the courage to intentionally heal in our daily lives. I'm your host, Dr. Chinasa Elue, a professor, speaker, and grief coach. And I'm inviting you to join me on this journey, embracing our grief and the full spectrum of our emotions, a palette of feelings that colors our lives even in the face of loss. In each episode, we dive into real stories of healing and growth, as we also feature guests who have found strength in sorrow, love and loss, and joy even in their darkest times. Grieving in Color is about acknowledging the pain, the loss, and the grief, but it is also about finding hope, love, and joy again. Whether you are currently on your grief journey or supporting someone who is, This is a space for you. We are here to remind you that you are not alone and it's okay to grieve in your own color.

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Dr. Chi: Welcome to another episode of the Grieving in Color podcast, the space where we explore the various shades of grief and loss and healing. I'm your host, Dr. Chi, and today we're diving deep into a conversation that I've wanted to have for some time. We're talking about navigating grief around infertility.

And I have a wonderful, wonderful guest today who is courageously sharing her story. And I have with us today, Alicia J. I'm going to read you her bio because it is extensive and it highlights all of the amazing things that she's doing. So let me introduce our guest to you as we get started. Alicia J is an entrepreneur, author, fertility advocate, and purpose, confidence, and transformation mentor.

She helps women ditch the traditional church girl stigma and confidently walk in her God-given purpose without sacrificing her personal flair. She is the former host of the Church Girl Reality online radio show, an international show that aired in over 129 countries. All right, now. And that show is dedicated to highlighting religious, spiritual, and societal topics impacting Christian women around the world.

Recognizing her for her radiant, relatable, and refreshing speaking style, Alicia J is a respected motivational speaker. Her powerful messages help women overcome self-sabotage and shatter limiting beliefs, unlocking their full potential. In her role as a co-host of the Journey to Motherhood podcast along with Geri Alicea, Alicia J shares her expertise in preventative care and offers encouragement to women navigating the challenging path to motherhood.

Drawing from her personal journey of infertility, this podcast aligns seamlessly with the principles of her nonprofit organization, The Motherhood Foundation. Most recently, she became an author of Unmarried Without Children, a moving testament to the power of faith, love, and the human spirit. Offering readers a captivating and relatable exploration of one woman's journey through the challenges of dating and infertility, while holding on to her unyielding trust in God's plan.

She has a degree in psychology from Emory University, and her Minister of the Gospel license has allowed her to fulfill her God-given purpose. Through her mentoring and leadership, she encourages, empowers, and elevates women on their individual journeys toward fulfilling their purpose. Welcome, Alicia J to the Grieving in Color podcast.

So glad to see you. How are you today? 

Alisha J.: So glad to be here. Thank you so much, Chinasa. This is so great. 

Dr. Chi: Yes. I was so excited when we started chatting about this particular topic because I have so many stories from women who have walked this really sensitive journey around fertility and when I saw your story and how you've been able to really empower women through navigating this really sensitive topic, I was inspired by you and your testimony and wanted to provide an opportunity for guests who are navigating their own personal journeys around their fertility path to see how this conversation might support them, especially if they're experiencing an element of grief here.

So I want to thank you for that. And I want us to go ahead and jump right into this episode because we have a lot to discuss today. Okay. [Yes.] My first question to you this morning is, can you share your personal journey with navigating fertility and how it's impacted your life? 

Alisha J.: I am going to give you all the abbreviated version, but during my cycles I would always have hot flashes, right?

I would get extremely hot and then extremely cold. Doctors were telling me, no problem, it's normal, your hormones are just doing whatever they do, so don't worry about it. This was in college. Flash forward to when I turned 34. I noticed that I was getting night sweats and the hot flashes were hot and hot.

So I was like, what's happening? Went to the doctor. The doctor was like, well, let's check your thyroid. Make sure there's nothing wrong there. Then she was like, okay, nothing's wrong there. Let's check your FSH, which is your hormone levels, which determine where you are in menopause. So she checked that and once I got the results, she said, Alicia, you're in perimenopause based on the levels.

So if you're over, I think the number was like 110 or 100 or something like that. And I think I was like at 113. Yeah, at 34. So of course, we're all kind of like, what's happening? So she said, go to your OB-GYN and get some other tests done. So I went to the OB-GYN, she did some tests and the test that she did was to test my egg reserves.

It's an accurate, but not the end-all, be-all test for your egg reserve. And for those who don't know what that means, for women who, when we're born, we're born with all the eggs that we're ever going to have in life. And so as we're growing, the eggs begin to fall off because of our cycles, or they begin to fall off because of just any other reason.

And you're born usually with millions of eggs. And so when I got my test results back, (the hormone that they test for is AMH) the level was at 0. 03. And in order for you to, like, have a viable reserve, they want you to be at 1, at least. I was at .03, not .3, .03. I was completely broke down at this point.

But I still had some hope, so I asked the doctor, I said, Hey, can I at least try to freeze whatever is available? And she gave me a reproductive doctor and we went through the whole process of trying to freeze eggs. And for those who are trying to go through that process, just know you're going to be injecting yourself with hormones every day.

It's a strict regimen. And then you go to the doctor, they see what they can do. And it just so happened the morning that they were going to see, you know, what was available, what follicles and eggs had shown up was the day that I usually go to church, it's on Sunday. And it was a Sunday morning and it was before church.

I was looking at the ultrasound tech's face as she was looking at the screen and it did not look happy, but I still went to church, got to church. The nurse got the results. The nurse calls me while I'm in church and tells me we're gonna have to cancel. She literally used the word cancel. I'm gonna have to cancel your cycle.

We didn't find anything. Then I had to follow up with the doctor. The doctor then came in and said we saw one follicle. One follicle isn't enough for them to go in and do the freezing. Mind you, all of this is very expensive. During this time of my life, I was unemployed. So I really had no money to be doing all the things but God provided for me, praise the Lord, to be able to do this. And I was able to get a refund because there are certain things, certain aspects of the cycle of everything that I wasn't able to complete because of the lack of follicles. 

And so going through that was devastating to me as a woman, because all of my life, we read the Bible, the Bible says, blessed is the woman who has the children.

We've seen the stories of Hannah and Rachel and so many in the Bible - Sarah - who didn't think they were blessed because they didn't have children. And culturally at the time, that was what was societal's norm of being blessed. And I had to grieve that. I had to grieve my idea of what my family was going to be.

I had to grieve growing up believing that you go to school, you get married, you have children, you run off into the sunset with your white picket fence and your house. I was the type of girl, I got married in kindergarten. Like I had a little boyfriend, a little boo thing, and we got married on the playground.

And it was just– My whole world was shattered and I went through depression. I really did. And it was hard. It was really hard, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel. 

Dr. Chi: First of all, just thank you for walking us through that extensive process. To your point, especially if you're one that has desired marriage and then desired everything thereafter with the kids included, it's very helpful to hear you walk us through what you were navigating during that time. And so thank you for sharing this piece of your journey with us. 

How does the discovery of infertility impact the perception of future relationships and your desire for marriage, especially when you're talking– I know in a lot of your work you're working with single women, how do you navigate this, even in the dating context?

Alisha J.: For me, it was tricky, but I knew I had to be upfront and honest with whomever, like, I'm dating. The saying goes, there's pee in the dating pool, but I say there's chlorine for that. Not everybody out in these streets is horrible, and you filter through. Every man that I've dated or even started talking to or interested in, I tell them my story and I'm like, okay, their non-negotiable is that their wife can't have any struggles with infertility. That's they're non-negotiable and we're just not for each other. 

What I'm finding is that most guys are like, I already have kids, so I'm good. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. The opposite that I'm also finding is that some guys don't want to adopt because I've always wanted to adopt. So the challenge isn't the whole infertility thing, it's the whole, I don't want to adopt somebody else's kid.

I'm finding that to be a challenge and it's always the consensus is, well, if we don't conceive naturally, then that's a last resort type of thing. And it's like, no, I want to adopt and include us trying to have children as well. I had one guy, a couple of guys who were like, I don't even want any more kids.

Which is also a problem because I want children. There's that dynamic. I have run into a few guys who are like, Hey, whatever happens, happens. I'm good. We want to adopt. We want to have children. We'll do all the things. I will say probably about 75 percent of the time, it's more so I already have kids. I don't want any more kids.

And then the 25 percent is, we'll do whatever it is that we need to have children. I had one guy I dated, he literally prayed for my womb every day, which was a blessing and very encouraging. We just couldn't make it work for other reasons. 

And I want to encourage women, like, I want y'all to understand, when you're dating, get your non-negotiables. I worked with a dating coach and she said, have six non-negotiables. And I was like, ten? She's like, no, six and that's it. Because if you get the ten, then you're gonna have fifteen, and you're gonna have twenty. She said, what are your top six things that you just can't?

Like, I know my top three. You gotta know Jesus. That's a non-negotiable. You want a different religion? I'm sorry. I can't be with you. You want children and then you can't be a smoker. Those are three non-negotiables. And then of course you want some stability and all that other stuff. But my list went from when I was in my twenties to, you know, he got to be six feet tall and 180 pounds, 200 pounds, six figures, all the things.

Now I'm like, child, you got a job. You got your teeth. Not the teeth though. Even if you go have your teeth, we can go get that. You get older and your priorities change. That's right. I want to encourage women who are out here in the dating streets. Look at those things. Look at those six non-negotiables as opposed to the superficial things.

Make sure they're not superficial. If he's short, he's just going to be short. But if he's kind, if he has integrity, if he's good-looking, are those things that you can look past that he's not six feet tall. So stay curved out in the streets, right? 

Dr. Chi: So it's interesting, especially in this context, as we're talking about navigating fertility, to recognize that you still have options, right?

And that even when dating, you don't have to lower the bar based on the fact that this is one aspect of your life that you're working through. So I think that's great to mention that for listeners who were thinking that they just have to accept whatever, it's like, no, we still have standards. There are things that we still have leverage here to make a choice in terms of what we want to include as a part of our lives in this context. And I think that's very helpful. 

Alisha J.: And it's a difference between a scarcity mindset and an abundance mindset because I think women, we get into the dating pool and we're like, Oh, it's literally like five guys that are going to be available and going to be ready.

And I've had that mindset. Like I have to hone in on this one guy because this is it. And then it ends up being something toxic that I didn't really want because I felt like I didn't deserve something else. So just making sure you understand, and as you're talking to that person, how does this person really make me feel? How does this person make me feel 80 percent of the time, right? It's the 80-20 rule. Cause we're not always going to get along. We're not always going to agree on everything. But do I like this person overall? And is this person contributing to my happiness? Not giving me my happiness, cause happiness comes from yourself, right? And it comes from God, but is he contributing to my happiness? So looking at those things and making sure that you're coming from a mindset of abundance and not scarcity. 

Dr. Chi: Thank you for sharing that. As we're talking today, what do you think are some common misconceptions surrounding infertility and the grieving process associated with it?

Alisha J.: Folks just feel like it's just so easy to get pregnant. Like, Oh, some people are like, when people have miscarriages or go through infertility, Oh, just try this. Or just try that. Or just try this. Or asking questions not knowing what a person is going through. When are you going to get married? When are you going to have children?

Those are very insensitive questions. I have a t-shirt that says mind your own uterus for a reason because you never know what a person is going through. Literally, somebody could have miscarried the day before and here you are at the wedding, innocently because culturally that's what we've been doing, you ask, Oh, when are you going to have children?

And I'm still grieving the fact that I lost a child yesterday. Right. And so it becomes challenging and discouraging to have to constantly navigate through the questions and how to answer them. What I've been asking and trying to advocate is to find another conversation starter, especially if you're talking to a couple or to a woman.

You could ask anything, like, girl, where you get your hair from? Anything outside of something that's so personal. One of my friends, she said, well, her response would be, well, did you brush your teeth this morning? That was personal. Did you wash your butt? Why are you asking me about my womb when I'm trying to figure out what to do with it and you don't even know what I'm going through with that?

So that has been something that, again, I'm advocating for people to just kind of not ask that question of couples who are married, a couple of women who are going through things because you just don't know. 

Dr. Chi: That's real. And I think about even as you're talking, my own personal journey, even with having kids was wrought with some challenges in and of itself, right?

We had a miscarriage and then walked through a season where we could not conceive and we didn't know what that was going to look like for us, even accepting entering into parenthood. By the grace of God, we were able to eventually have kids, but that was not without assistance early on. And then naturally we were able to conceive after leaving a very stressful environment work-wise. So I think... yeah, so it's interesting thinking about these societal expectations and pressures to have kids. It's interesting because people really don't understand the journey that's associated with that. 

My question here is just more so thinking about, we talk a lot about people not minding their own uterus or their own womb and really being dialed into what's going on, tracking you. You're getting up there in age, what's up, what's going on, what's your plan, right? We're talking a little bit more in detail about the grief experience here. How do you think societal pressures and cultural expectations contribute to the grief that people experience when they are walking through infertility?

Alisha J.: Social media will kill your joy. Not only that, you have, you know, grandma, mama. Especially when you're single and you have parents that don't have grandchildren and they're watching all their friends have grandchildren. They're ready to be grandparents. It's a lot of pressure. And as much as they try not to, my parents really do try not to put that pressure on me because they know my story, they know what I'm going through.

They still have that desire to be grandparents. And so sometimes it does come out where it's like, okay, so we're going to have some grandkids. And I've never desired to be a single parent. So that was not something that– I could go adopt, but even adoption has a lot of contingencies and rules and things that you have to do to prepare to be a single parent.

The way my life is set up right now if I tried to adopt, they would probably be like, you need to stop doing X, Y, Z, 1, 2, 3. You got to get your house ready a certain way. Like all these things. Cause they look at everything, right? It's never been my desire to be a single parent. And so for me to be 40 and my parents ready to be grandparents, thank God that they have a church so they are able to love on other people's babies until they can have their own grandchildren.

It made me sad because I couldn't provide for them grandchildren around the time that they started expecting to have that. And so sometimes I struggle with that. Struggling with the thought of I am delaying a desire that they have as well. Not necessarily that's a pressure that they're putting on me. It's just a thing that's in the back of my mind, right? Something that you think about. 

I look at my parents and out of all their siblings, my mom is the only person without grandchildren and my dad and one of his other brothers, it's only two of them that don't have grandchildren. It's just kind of like, I want to give them the gift of having grandchildren, they want to experience that. And especially as my parents are growing older, I want to still be able to provide that for them. 

And then not only that, you look at society, and I talked about this in my book and then I said this earlier, society's expectation. Again, you go to school, you go to college, either you get married in college or you get married after college, and then you have babies. I know there's a shift in a lot of things, but if you're still in the mindset of building a family, that's usually the path that you take. To have graduated from college and then not gotten married and then not have children and here we are in 40, my timeline is busted, right? 

But God's timeline, God's time is not linear. Coming to accept the fact that God's timeline isn't my timeline, doesn't negate my desire to be married or my desire to have children. It just means that my journey is going to look different and unconventional. And accepting that has been a challenge because of the societal norm ever since you’re a little kid.

Accepting that has been a challenge, but, and on some days I'm still like, all right, Lord, what are we doing? But you get to a place where you really do want to understand that God has a purpose for everything. If he didn't, I wouldn't be on this podcast now. 

Dr. Chi: That's real. It's great to hear you talk about those societal expectations, right? Because in a lot of ways they drive our existence. The things that we're conditioned to think, how our journeys need to unfold over time. Seeing how you've been able to make some sense of your particular journey and how it's still unfolding like the verdict is still out. It's not over and there's still more to come in regards to what the future might hold in this regard.

So I appreciate you sharing this aspect of just navigating these expectations, these pressures that are very salient. They're very much a part of our lived experiences, particularly as women, as we're trying to figure out all the things that come with navigating fertility in general, right? It was interesting to hear you speak about how, in this context, you really want to give your parents the gift of having grandchildren, right?

And even just personally, the desire is there for you as well. But given the fact that there has been a measure of grief that you've had to navigate as it pertains to dealing with infertility, what are some self-care practices that you've had to leverage to help support you in your journey? And is there anything you might recommend to others that may find themselves navigating the grief around infertility but are really struggling to take care of themselves?

Any self-care items that you might mention here? 

Alisha J.: Yes. One, don't isolate yourself because it's easy to isolate and depression will definitely convince you to be isolated. You won't feel like you want to be around people, but what you actually need is to be around someone who's caring. Not somebody that's gonna be like, All right, girl, we're gonna be depressed together.

No. Somebody that's going to actually see, Hey, my sis has a need. She needs to be taken care of. Maybe she just needs somebody to scratch her scalp. Somebody to just sit on the couch and just listen to her and love on her and hug on her. I know I talked about this in my book. Unmarried without children.

But it's so important to have that village around you because I know for me, navigating that grief, because I lived alone at the time, isolation filled my mind with a lot of things that could have been detrimental to me. So because of the fact that I was taking hormones, the reproductive center sends you home with a list of therapists because they know that the hormones that you're taking, once you come off of them, it's like literally a high and then you go to the lowest low. I liken it to the movie Get Out where he was in the sunken place. It's the same feeling. 

You want to have people who are around you to talk you off of that ledge because you'll have voices in your head saying you're not worth anything. You're less than because you can't have children. No man is going to ever want to marry you. You have no value. You'll never be fulfilled in life because you won't have children. You won't get married. So there are so many voices in your mind telling you these things. And so you need people who have Christ in them, who have love in them, who can help you navigate through that.

So that's number one. Number two, don't forget the things you like to do. Coming out of depression, it's hard to love things that you do. It's hard to get back into that, but write a list of things that you like to do, like Zumba, or do you like to knit, or if you like to, I don't know, work out, or go parasailing. Try those things. Get back into the swing of things. Get back into a routine. Have somebody that's going to keep you accountable. 

Also, just kind of chill out. Play some relaxing music. I love just doing those things. Going to the spa for me is top-tier. I like having some massages. Also, number one, spending time with God, meditating on his word, and literally asking him because I know it's hard. Trust me, I know because I was there. It's hard to get back into the presence of God when you're in a place where you feel like God disappointed you. Or didn't show up for you or didn't answer your prayers. It's hard to get back into that space of, okay, God, now I trust you. I trust that this means something. I trust that this pivot in my life is going to make a difference somewhere, and it has a purpose. It's hard to get there, but you can get there. 

And so making sure that you have somebody that's going to help you get there as well. And if you don't, not losing that connection is important because, for me, I know that if I didn't have God in my life, we probably would not be sitting here having this podcast.

Dr. Chi: Yeah. I appreciate you just walking us through these steps because I think it's very easy at times to isolate. I think that's perhaps the number one thing that is just natural. It's like, you don't want to be around anyone, close the shutters, close the blinds, leave me here by myself, right? And to recognize the importance of community.

I think that's a big piece that I'll always mention is particularly around grief, how you shouldn't grieve alone. It's an honor to be able to invite people into that space with you to support you, especially in a time where it's very sensitive and you need that extra support. And then even talking through some of the faith-based practices that you've been able to leverage to really uplift you in times where your spirit has been crushed in a variety of ways, right? I think that's an important piece here. 

I want to shift a little bit in our conversation to talk about some strategies and perhaps some advice you might offer to those who are in the thick of the grief, who are really here today and are just like, I really don't know what to do or how to move forward.

What advice or insights do you have, especially for single women who are coping with the grief of infertility, how might you suggest they maintain hope for the possibility of motherhood in non-traditional ways and just stay encouraged in this season? 

Alisha J.: I always say this, grieve properly, because what happens is, one, You may not recognize that you need to grieve. Two, people try to rush you through your grieving process. And three, you may feel like you've gone through the grieving process, but you haven't completed it. I talk about the seven stages of grief in my book. You can google the seven stages of grief online as well. 

But make sure that you are recognizing, “I need to grieve this. I need to let go of this. I need to understand that God's plan is not the plan that I had and accept that plan.” And it's not an easy thing to do. I don't want to sit here and come on here and be like, yes, I agreed. And then I was like, yeah, this is what we're doing. No, it's still in the back of my mind. I still wanted my plan.

Right. And I had to literally submit my will to God. Which looked like a lot of crying, a lot of bargaining, a lot of tears, a lot of frustration, and then getting to a point of acceptance, getting to a point of joy, getting to a point of, okay, God, this is the purpose that I have. If I hadn't gone through this journey, I wouldn't have written a book.

If I hadn't gone through this journey, I wouldn't have known half the stuff I know now. Like, I wouldn't have researched how to grieve your womb. I wouldn't have researched anything having to do with infertility. I wouldn't even know most of the stuff I know about our female reproductive system now if I hadn't gone through what I went through.

There's a shift in your mind that you have to make in order to say to yourself, okay, this is different, but that doesn't mean– I'm not out of the game. If that makes sense. I still have a purpose. I still have value. I still have all these things. And so definitely making sure that you grieve properly is number one.

Again, I can't stress enough community, community, community, community. Dr. Chinasa has talked about it as well. We're both saying community is so important. You need people around you and I'm not talking about people who are gonna bring you down. We need people who are going to lift you up. So if you have that friend that's like, if she doesn't have the faith that you have, if you still believe that God is going to work a miracle in your life and she's got doubt, we might want to let sis go.

Or if she's competitive and she's glad that you're not able to do what you set out to do, that is definitely not your brand. Make sure that– [Right. Okay] make sure that you have people around you who are on your side and who are on one accord and on the same page. 

Again, asking God what's next. What is the plan? And sometimes God will give you the whole vision. Sometimes he'll sprinkle in a few little details, but be vigilant about asking God for the plan. There are days where I cry out to God. I'm like, ah, things aren't working. And he's like, just trust me. Trust me. I know a lot of people say trust the process and literally what it is, it's just trusting God because God owns the process.

So trusting God throughout that process. It looks real ghetto. It is so ghetto. We don't know the timeline. We do the thing that God tells us to do and the result we thought we were gonna get is not sometimes the result he gives us and sometimes it is the result. But I have learned that when you trust God, everything will work out for your good. That's what it says in the good book. 

And then also just remain hopeful. Hope deferred, we know, makes the heart sick, but we know that God gives us hope so that we can maintain our faith. Remain hopeful. Those are all the strategies that I've been using. 

Dr. Chi: Thank you so much for sharing those pieces because I think it's definitely important for us to think about strategies that can be helpful for us as we're navigating the ups and downs of our emotions and just thinking through the journey in and of itself.

Do you have any resources or support networks that have been particularly beneficial for individuals grieving infertility that perhaps you can share with listeners today? 

Alisha J.: Yes. Oh, and one more thing. Journaling. Journaling is really good too. Great strategy. I no longer have this community, but the Motherhood Foundation, I still have that page up. So if y'all want to join the Facebook group, the Motherhood Foundation. 

Womb Prep is another good one. That is the podcast that I co-host with Geri Alicea. It's called the Journey to Motherhood podcast. Her group is called Womb Prep. That was very helpful. She has a book as well. Of course, Unmarried Without Children. That's also a great resource. And we'll link all of these in the show notes for sure. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Just finding... researching online, that group in itself, Womb Prep, has been a huge help for me. Just navigating through those types of things. 

You can also look up Facebook groups. There are so many groups. Instagram, there are so many people who are talking about it. Eggs Over Easy film was a very good film that was very helpful and educational. I'm not a gatekeeper, so I'm like, listen, if there are resources out there, please go patronize those people and go watch and listen and look as well. So those are some resources that I can suggest.

Dr. Chi: Awesome. I appreciate you sharing those and we'll definitely be sure to share them with guests as well. If you could leave one piece of advice for someone who is supporting a loved one walking through infertility and dealing with the grief of that. What is one item of advice you might offer, even though they may not fully understand their experience?

Alisha J.: Just listen. Sometimes we don't want advice. We just want you to hear us out. The number one thing is just to listen and be present because you can listen and not be present, but be present and understand that this is a process. So listen, be patient, be present. I know that's three, three different things. 

Dr. Chi: All interconnected with that, right?

Alisha J.: Yes. 

Dr. Chi: Yes, absolutely. And so as we're rounding out our interview today, I really appreciate you walking us through the ins and outs of your own infertility journey at this point and sharing with us how we can begin to think about ways to navigate the grief associated with it. If you could leave a message of hope or encouragement to listeners today, what is one piece of hope or encouraging advice you could leave with listeners who are currently grieving their own infertility journey?

Alisha J.: This is a message of hope and I don't want people to, because unfortunately on social media, folks prophesize so much and then people get upset with God when it doesn't happen for them, but you also have to remember that there are millions of people watching that one video. And so my message of hope is that regardless of the outcome, it will be fulfilling for you.

So whatever God has planned for you, it is going to fulfill whatever your purpose is, whatever your desire is, whatever it is that you are seeking. And you are valuable, you are loved, and there is nobody like you. 

Dr. Chi: Thank you for sharing that because I think in a lot of ways, it's very easy for one to tie their worth and their value to their ability to have kids, particularly if that's something that you've desired for so long.

But it's disentangling all of that and recognizing that you are worthy simply because you exist. You are valuable simply because you exist with or without children, that you are loved, you are needed, and that your unique gifts will carry you even in seasons of challenge. I just thank you for pushing this narrative and this message here around worthiness and how we are worthy simply by just being.

There's nothing else that's required. We're worthy. We're valuable. 

Alisha J.: We are fearfully and wonderfully made. That is Psalm 139. 

Dr. Chi: Thank you so much for your time during today's interview. Do you have any upcoming events or releases that you would like to share with guests today? 

Alisha J.: Yes, absolutely. So I am always promoting my book Unmarried Without Children. It is available on my website, allthingsalishaj.com. It's also available on Amazon and Barnes & Nobles, but please go to allthingsalishaj.com. 

And then also just sign up to stay connected because there's so many things that happen throughout the year. We have events. Our Galentine's Day event is every February. So we're gearing up for that for next February. And that's for women who are married, unmarried, just to come out, have fun. Last year, we had a ball, the year before we had a ball. So make sure you sign up, stay connected. And cause who knows, only God knows what else is happening the rest of this year. 

Dr. Chi: This year has been interesting, to say the least.

So how can listeners stay connected with you beyond our time together on the podcast today? 

Alisha J.: I would love to stay connected with you guys. So again, I am allthingsalishaj. Alisha is spelled A-L-I-S-H-A on all platforms, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. I do have a Twitter, which is now called X. I'm not usually on there that much, but it's still allthingsalishaj.

You can also stay connected with me by clicking the link on my website, allthingsalishaj.com. 

Dr. Chi: Awesome. And we will definitely link this for listeners below the show notes. Alicia J, I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to share with us your story about navigating grief with infertility.

And so for our listeners today, hopefully, you were able to glean some strategies and advice that may be beneficial or supportive of you as you're navigating your own journey with infertility. And if you have a friend who's walking through this very sensitive journey themselves, please feel free to share this episode with them.

Our hope is that we don't walk in isolation as we're navigating life and that you're able to glean from the experiences of others to support you in this context.

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Thank you for choosing to spend time with me on this episode of Grieving in Color. If today's episode has resonated with you, or if you know someone who might benefit from our conversation, please share this episode with them. Also, I would love to hear your thoughts, your stories, and the ways I can support you as you navigate your own grief. You can reach out to me on my website at www.drchinasaelue.com or connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram @drchinasaelue. Your participation, feedback, and story help us keep this conversation going and reach those who need it the most. Remember, there's no right way to grieve. There's only your way, and every shade of your grief is valid. 

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This episode of the Grieving in Color Podcast is brought to you by Rachael Sanya and Productions.